MATR Ventures’ Giselle Melo’s Pivot to Venture Capital

Giselle Melo 

I’m so excited to be here, Hessie. 

Hessie Jones 

Ohh good, I’m glad. To get here. I’m good because we’re gonna dissect your life if you don’t mind. 

Giselle Melo 

No, I I don’t mind. And I just wanted and just out of respect for some of uh, some of what you said earlier and because of the family office that that we were able to partner with, I just wanted to to correct one small piece of information. So you know and I and I do. Touch on this. Very likely because it was such an important piece of of matter ventures becoming matter ventures is the Family Office had actually he’s he’s a leading investor, one of Canada’s most prolific entrepreneurs leaders, phenomenal human being. He had hired our company and partnered with our company to build the logistics system. So. It’s that logistics system that exited. Now of course overtime, like any good relationship trust, you know, delivering on results, it strengthened our relationship and then he and his family office became an anchor investor matter. So I just wanted to kind of correct that and and get the information right? 

Hessie Jones 

OK, got it. 

Hessie Jones 

Got it. So. He obviously was already a fan before he became an investor, so. 

Giselle Melo 

Yeah, we want each other for more than 10 years. Now for more than. 

Hessie Jones 

Great. That’s great. OK, so let’s start off. When you’re a child, OK? Not not really a child. OK, so you say you’ve been on an entrepreneur since you were 12. And So what? What did inspired you at that age? Like, what did entrepreneurship look like at that time in your life? 

The information right? 

Yes. I didn’t even know what entrepreneurship was, but I’ll. I’ll give you a… Listen, entrepreneurship. When I grew up, there was nothing sexy about it, so I just. Want to say? That but anyhow. So listen, my family is Brazilian, my brother and I. Are Canadian and the only ones in across 4 generations that were born outside of Brazil? With my parents and I talk about this at length, like every time I’m telling a story about myself with, you know, my parents working, like many immigrants, my grandmother raised us, so I spent most of my after school hours either with her or with what. After school and weekends with. What I I referred to? As my extended family, which is. Just it’s it’s literally immediate and adjoining neighborhoods and blocks and blocks of of. I would say both indigenous Canadian kids and 1st generation immigrant kids from Africa, from South America, from West Indies or the Caribbean. If you were from South Asia. So it was just this huge melting pot of of kids all over the place and outside of my window. And this is what? I’m telling I did. I didn’t know what entrepreneurship was, but outside of my window, what I did observe were two worlds. One is where my. Parents left for work. Every day to ensure that my brother and I would experience a better life than they did. And then the other is what I call the streets. So that’s, you know, where the hustlers and the entertainers created and assembled around a super dope culture and sound known. As hip hop. And although I didn’t know how to articulate it at the time. I witnessed how my parents. And hip hop were so key. To fueling the growth of North America’s economic engine, but they weren’t accumulating asset value from their contributions. So a very early age, as you say, might need to understand how money moves ignited. That said, at the age of 12. I started my first what I would. Call real business. Again, not really knowing the details of business and not not at that. And I don’t think I even knew the word entrepreneurship. At the end of basically at the end of every winter and summer, I noticed how many, you know, toys and items in in in my complex or in my building. How many of those tenants were throwing out things in the garbage? So a few times a year I started making my rounds and knocking on the door of every unit in my 8 story building asking tenants for items that they no longer wanted. They gave. They gave me so many things and I’m not sure if they gave it to me because they thought I was cute and wanted to support my. Efforts or whether I was helping them clear garbage from their home, but I would run a few garage sales a year and I actually made some really good money as especially as a 12 year old kid. This is not lemonade stand money. This was like I made a lot of money and and it was selling used goods in my neighborhood. But the best part I’m going to say one of my favorite parts that I never forget. The feeling I got when overtime you’d have like some of the artists and like, you know, joining neighborhoods from around the block, they started bringing their art around to the areas where where we were selling things. And I remember how happy I felt that they they were able to sell some of their. Pieces of of work of. Artwork and never. And I never cared to take money from that. I just. I was just it was. It was almost like this communal experience. It was really, really, really cool. And I think because back home, many of my family members were artists. I think that’s why. It had the impact that it had on me once my parents moved us out of that neighborhood to to to a neighborhood that many would consider middle to upper class. 

Giselle Melo 

Uh. Better schools. I took this concept of St. team so this is my second company. I took this concept of a street team and if if you’re a hip hop header into hip hop, you’ll know what I mean by St. team and that was the first time that I built a marketing company. It was actually an event marketing or lifestyle marketing company. And then we started. Doing some digital but it was around that time. That I would learn about Steve Jobs. So I learned that he had dropped out of school. I had heard that he was. When I say heard is like learning right, it’s videos. It’s certain things. You you kind of follow somebody. And I’m like looking at this guy, I’m like, huh. Here’s a guy building this incredible technology company, and he’s not an engineer, and that’s stuck with me. And so although I naturally lean more to technical in numbers anyway. A light bulb went off and I remember the little words inside my head. And the question is like, well, if he can do it, why can’t I, right and so kind of the rest is? History, digital digital this marketing company event marketing digital led me to tech eventually tech led me to wealth management, wealth management into investment banking and eventually now into venture capital. And it’s in my eight years in wealth management that it really started providing me insight like real true. Hands on macro and micro insight into my need to understand how money moves. Like that’s when the answers became started, becoming really, really clear. And you asked about using a business and life views on businesses in life from. From all of that is that. UM. I think we’re all the result of our choices, right. Whether it’s the content we consume, how we wake up in the morning. How we educate ourselves, whether it’s through experiences in life or formal education, it’s what we eat. It’s our environment, our upbringing. These are all choices. And real result of all of those choices. But, and I will say, but, and I’m pausing on that. But because I do believe we have, I believe in accountability, I believe. In putting your best foot forward, I believe in leveling up right. I’m very much and we know each other enough to say I you know how I’m about a Mama mentality and I live and die by that. But. For Indigenous and African the the, the indigenous and African diaspora for people of color, for women. We’ve had additional speed bumps and layers to navigate towards those results, right. So some of those speed bumps. And I’ll call them speed bumps and layers. Are everywhere they’re they’re evident for everyone to see, but still. Most speed bumps and most layers exist in the fine print of contracts. They exist in institutional bylaws and they in and and and they exist in in software code, right? And no matter what all that’s said and done, I think this is the greatest time to be alive. And it’s the greatest time for us to to build a company and to unlock prosperity. So still, that’s my. 

Hessie Jones 

It’s I think we’re going to delve much more deeply into that because I think you and I share the same views when it comes to lot of the systemic stuff that’s happening society and how it’s limited access to resources and funding all that stuff for the people that we’re trying to support. So let’s let’s go back into something that you mentioned earlier. So you say tat tech and capital, they’re the vehicles for your life assignment through for economic empowerment was there, is there a specific moment where those two really, really came together together. I know you mentioned a little bit about it before, but I’m not sure if it was a moment or was it a a. Series of moments. 

Giselle Melo 

You mean when it became? When my mission became clear? When?  

Hessie Jones 

When the whole idea of economic empowerment through entrepreneurship is your intersection between tech and capital, right? And I I know the trade labs and what happened with there and what you had built that was. One thing, but also you you had talked about like when you when you were at the investment company, I mean that those ideas were probably shaping at the same time as you’re building all this amazing software. So like it, it seemed to almost. Pull less than to what mattered. Ventures is, but was there a moment in time when you said that even before that happened, were there other things that that said? Listen, just all you got to. Do something about this. 

Giselle Melo 

Yeah. So. It’s interesting because because I look how I look and we are investing in what I call inclusive teams or diverse teams or there’s all you know, there’s all sorts of ways to describe it. There’s often a focus on, you know, what are what are the challenges, what are the disparities, what are the speed bumps and you know earlier, like I said, I believe we. All have choices. To make, but you know, some of us have additional layers and speed bumps that we need to. Find a way. Over and through, in order to have the results that I believe a lot of us are looking to have, which are, you know, high performance. Returns impacts all of those things. But yes, I have alluded to those key moments and now I have so many moments. But in my early years, hip hop ignited the mission. I would say I’ll put it in three steps. Hip-hop ignited the mission towards economic empowerment. There’s a book that I read in my early teens which shifted my perspective on business models and investing. And then there was the uh. Literally, you know, through YouTube University watching following kind of what Steve Jobs was doing. So I would say Steve Jobs, that experience crystallized the mission. 

Speaker 

Quickly on the book, the book is is called McDonald’s behind the Arches by John F Love. It’s an old book. OK, but where I came to learn it was it was a big book, but it just kept me super, Super, super engaged. And in summary, I mean, a lot of people know the story now, but it really here’s a gentleman who went through all kinds of stuff later, later and later in in his later years. Ended up applying you know some non traditional and traditional methods of growing and scaling a business. But we you know, for those who do follow or have follow McDonald’s, you know it’s never about the burger or the restaurants, it’s about the real estate. So that entire is a very, very good book to just it opened my brain up to the possibilities of building businesses in so many different ways. The importance of contracts and distribution and a bunch of stuff. So. That was the. Book it’s called McDonald’s and the arches by John F Love. But we’ll focus maybe on the two points. So hip hop and Steve Jobs. My need to understand how many moves was ignited. Like I said, when watching my parents and watching hip-hop contribute. Literally contribute to the growth. Of a global economic engine. But in both cases, not realizing gains as they call it an investing and not not realizing and experiencing. Portfolio growth from real asset values, right from owning real assets that increase in value over time or you can sell them, which is what makes them an asset, right? There’s some intrinsic value in there that somebody else is willing to pay for. So in my early years, as I observed, Steve Jobs introduced, you know new tech products into the market, although I’m software and he’s hardware. So I’ve gotta plug in my computer cause it’s starting one second. As I’m watching him introduce new products into the market, I’m thinking to myself, wow, kind of like hip hop. He’s contributing tremendously to this economic engine. So in both cases, hip hop has built. Hip This the hip hop is built from nothing, right? It became this massive economic. Monster, but it was built from nothing. What I mean, nothing from the ground up with no capital. It’s just a number of. Elements that were brought together by the culture and hip hop came to be hip hop. Then you look at. Similar elements of what Steve did, which was. Building something from nothing but using tech. So I remember. You know, obviously in this case, Apple has a lot of hardware, but software is no more than zeros and ones. And the cost of entry to build software is 0 to low cost, at least the early stages of it where you can build it to a point where there’s you’re building something with some kind of some kind of value, not necessarily a full asset, but some kind of value. And so I’m seeing similarities in the way these two groups are moving, but what was exciting to learn. About observing Steve, was that the more he contributed to that economic engine, the greater his gains. And an increase in asset value he experienced and that was asset value from IP, from products, from distribution, from real estate, from, from R&D, from the brand itself and all these things individually and collectively have a tremendous amount of asset value which he was. 

Able to realize as well as. His shareholders and others. So similar to hip hop. Both of these are the center of influence right hip hop, being a center of influence. Let’s say Apple products or some kind of software being a center of influence. And then from there other sectors surface, right? Other areas, peripheral areas of those businesses come to be and they themselves. Under being this. These. Phenomenal organizations, large asset assets that originally just came from the center. This was one hip hop one, let’s say a a computer, OK, often times we don’t factor in that technology. So technology product being a center of influence, it gives rise to new sectors that are. Sometimes the most, most non glamorous, but the most valuable sectors, and those are the ones that shape our economy. So it’s like facilities, data centers, servers, networking hardware, even natural resources, right? That’s a whole other topic. Natural resources being required as an area and an asset. 

That that takes an entirely different form and shape. So for me, witnessing kind of the kind of. That’s why I told you. You know. You know, I. Love to talk. But so for me, witnessing so much of the asset value that was generated from both hip hop and a personal computer, both being centers of influence. Right. That’s what crystallized the mission of leveraging technology and capital to foster economic empowerment, specifically through entrepreneurship. 

So the result of gaining like first hand understanding of how money moves in the private capital markets. And first hand understanding of how to build technology, systems and infrastructure. That’s why now I partner with founders and Ioffer investors. This opportunity to say, hey, let’s build these, let’s invest in these companies that are building centers of influence, oftentimes building the infrastructure, some of those different assets and spaces and and. And companies that are coming off of that initial piece of of software or. Or right? So. Let’s just say that’s that’s where the mission came from. And because we’re talking about Mission, I want to do one thing, which is probably not exactly what you asked me for, but it’s something that I noticed I’ve never done when I’m talking to audiences or I’ve never talked on a podcast and and it’s. It’s on the note of I want to give a special shout out to what I call a few a few giants. OK, I’ll be quick with this, but it’s a shout out to. And in this case what I mean by Giants are leaders in the public eye who, maybe unlikely, unbeknownst to them, that they are unaware that I have stood on their shoulder. In times when I was the only one in the room, only one in the. Room of billionaires. Only one in the room standing, you know, amongst a bunch of family office, the only one in the room sitting and being a bunch amongst a bunch of Fortune 500 decision makers. The only one in the room, sometimes of incredible. And sometimes less incredible men. But to those giants, it’s been an. Honor to witness and learn from you. And I know it’s at one point it was Steve Jobs, but there are so many others. Watch them sacrifice and make certain decisions that sometimes we’re not the best only for shareholders, but took into consideration some other elements that I think we also take into consideration. And there’s no matter of. Ventures there’s no leashing labs. There’s, you know, something else that I’ve recently. Launched called the. Code there is none of these without. Somebody like a Jim Estell, right, CEO of Danby appliances. There’s not. There’s none of this with. I have great respect for Prime Minister of Barbados, Maya motley. Tremendous respect for CEO of Square, Jack Dorsey, artist and genius, Jay Cole, asset manager and global leader Melody Hobson. Philanthropist and brilliant mind Mackenzie Scott, head of investments at the Ford Foundation. Roy swan. I’m. I’m going to say investor entrepreneur. Thought leader Chamath Pahala Patia and President of Rwanda, which I’ve been following more more recently, talk Paul Kagame’s brilliant, brilliant in what he’s doing with, with with Rwanda right now, I cannot leave out the goat nazier Naz Jones, which is was in. 

Hessie Jones 

Wow. 

Giselle Melo 

This and more recently, Ice Cube, who’s building 3 on three basketball, by the way, if you ever see this or hear this interview, Ice Cube. I’m watching you. And to many, many others, may the force be with you and may you continue to be blessed on your journey as your journey continues.  

Hessie Jones 

I’m wondering if there is a thread of commonality among all of them that that turned your head that made that said that. That made you decide this is someone of significance in my life and I I. I honor them. Like what? What is it? I. 

Giselle Melo 

Well, I’ve learned so much from them because I I. The way that I grew up, I believe in maximizing profits. Right. So I mean I’m, I’m I’m a capitalist. At the same time. My attempt. At every turn, and when I say attempt, I don’t know these leaders that I just mentioned. I don’t know them intimately. To say I’m sitting here and vouch for every move they’ve made, but. What? But what I have noticed with them is. They appear to. Also, be focused on bottom line or the economics or the the economics of whatever organization that they’re leading, but. They also seem to have this thread. This common thread of trying to minimize collateral damage with the decisions that they make and try to improve areas that are follow outside of business as usual, which is purely bottom line and that’s why I mentioned them. It’s just, you know, there’s people that you follow and you kind of align with, I can’t like. And do I know them intimately? No. Do I look forward to? I’m probably gonna meet and work with a lot of the. 

Giselle Melo 

But that’s the reason why I’ve mentioned some of those names. 

Hessie Jones 

I gotta say something. It’s a little bit ironic because what you just said there they they try to minimize that their capital risk and. Yet. It if Steve Jobs had failed. If he decide it, if the IMAP if the iPhone, which he decided to create a market that never ever existed. If that failed, it was a if it was a catastrophic destruction that that that end up meaning that let’s say BlackBerry. And then their iPhone end up. End up superseding that market that. Would have changed the game forever. So if you think about it, he, he he was a catalyst for something that was amazing and yet he it could have all gone wrong for him. 

Giselle Melo 

That’s that’s that’s life in life. There’s always going to be times where things go all wrong and there’s going to be times when things go all right. It just, I think. And I think in many cases, when things go all wrong, it’s a matter of perspective. Because you know not to get too woo woo on you. But I I I’ve come to understand that when even when things look like they’re going wrong, oftentimes it’s the universe protecting you, propelling you or just asking you to switch directions to go in the direction you should supposed to be going in. So yeah, it could have been a, you know, could have gone, could have gone the wrong way. Was the guy perfect? Probably not. You know, you hear all kinds of stuff on how, you know, he was a tough leader. He was a smart leader sometimes. But at the end of the day, at least on this rock that we’re living in, we’re just human. So what we can do is just try to put our best foot forward and and attempt and that’s why I’m saying these leaders that I mentioned and there’s so many more I do not know them intimately, nor did I know Steve Jobs. But what I do know. Is. That there are things that they did. That inspired me and I stood on their their shoulders when I was in environment where. Again, you know, people talk about being the only one, oftentimes not having a network or sometimes just thinking so big that others in your immediate circle, you know, look at you differently or are not sure like why you’re talking that way. And so you literally there’s times where I literally created this environment of. Tapping into these people through video just so we can relate on a desire and a pursuit to build something bigger than ourselves. And for that I’m grateful. 

Hessie Jones 

So I want to. I want to take you a little bit back when you were actually running niche labs it it? Still exists today. 

Giselle Melo 

I’m just not operationally involved because of the fund, but yes, it exists. My cofounder is one of the most phenomenal human beings ever. Denner OK? And and we have a team. Both here in Canada and in Brazil that we we draw on whenever we have projects and contracts to work. 

Hessie Jones 

So you when you used to be when you operated more as a co-founder, what were, I would say, some of the challenges that you faced as a startup founder that you’re going to, that you take forward with you as an investor in the fund because you you understand? The hurdles that a lot of early stage founders face, was there anything there that you would take as a lesson? In in the way that I’d say you grew the the pitfalls, the the challenges in funding, whatever. Was there, anything there from your perspective that, that, that helped drive you to where you are today? 

Giselle Melo 

That’s an easy one and I think now I apply it to all areas of my life and I encourage. Whenever people. Can is applied to every area of their life. Is that great? Business is about relationships and I know we hear that. Every time they. Probably you know, shout it from the top of the. At every institution. But while matter Ventures is primarily an investment firm and with the fiduciary duty to its investors. We we really, really aim. Over the short and the long run to be known for having one of the most robust and valuable networks that our portfolio companies have access to, a very memorable moment for me has always been tied to how much the media industry focus on. Our founders ability to raise venture capital and build a Unicorn, and I just laugh because. And the reason I laugh is not to make fun of don’t get me wrong as a VC. I’m right. I’m right there with them, aiming to invest in unicorns too, but the but to the founders, I would say. You know, especially to the ones and this is very common that they’re out there thinking that the only way to success is a Unicorn or getting funding from a VC. Just to make it clear, I’ve never raised outside funding as a founder in my many, many years and many businesses that some did well, some just completely failed. Every dollar of revenue generated was reinvested in my venture, so I became my own bank. And I’m not saying that to like pat myself on the back, I’m saying because. Now I’m raising right raising to build this fund, but the fund itself, beyond being an investment vehicle and capital for founders, I’m really, really aiming it for it to. The. And become known as the VC firm. And I know every VC firm says we have this network. We are trying to do it in such a palatable way and be very make it so easy for our our founders to get access to that network. And I’ll say this, I’ll give you an example example of what I mean by the the power of relationships. Again, we’ve never raised outside capital from the founder side to my Co founder and I. Never raised outside capital. UM. Nishi Labs, for example. Nishi Labs, actually was was a pivot, and I call it a pivot, because that’s a sexy word. But. Before Nishi last was an issue, so it was a product company. We had built a decentralized software and system and marketplace for about 3 1/2 years. Totally bootstrapped, came out to the market with a great product, great revenue. We grew market, grew our team of engineers and designers entirely with whatever capital we have in bootstrap for 3 1/2 years went out. To raise funding. Hit every roadblock and that’s when I got a taste of VC as many talk about it or as I’m kind of describing to you today. UM. The turning point for us was that gentleman that I mentioned to you, Jim Estell, he ended up selecting our company to build a software product and partner with him to build a software. Product which is where we got our exit. By the way, that exit was not a Unicorn, it was not venture back. I may not be sitting here today sharing the story of my, you know, journey to VC, had it not been for that relationship point blank, one of the greatest benefits of that exit isn’t also that I can’t it it’s it’s also not that I can tell you the story about how we did it because those, you know, people love those stories. And I love telling the story. It’s a great story. But the greatest benefit has been building an even stronger relationship with one of. Canada’s leading entrepreneurs, operators, investors this this gentleman, Jim, he’s brilliant, OK. He he selected our firm, by the way he selected our firm to build this software over a much larger and much more robust engineering firm. So anyway, we get the exit. We have this relationship. Yes, we’ve delivered on value, but at its core. He’s a good human. And he, you know, I tell about the fun, the matter ventures. And I say here’s what he’s building. He’s just like, I’m in. And I’m like, what do you mean? You’re in? He’s like, I’m in. I didn’t ask him to invest. I was. Asking for some other. Things cause he had run a fund before this. He’s made more than 150 investments direct. And that’s what I was going to him for anyway. He ended up investing in being our anchor Investor, Family Office investor in the fund. But because we have a good relationship, of course I’ll never buy. I’ll never buy an appliance because that is an appliance. Probably I’ll never buy an appliance from another company. Let me make it clear and whoever is buying appliances, go buy dandy products. But the point is. 

Hessie Jones 

I have a freezer from danby listen. 

Giselle Melo 

If you’re if you’re in my network, or if you’re hearing this and you ever crossed my path and you’re walking with a fridge on your back, you better be a dandy fridge. OK, that’s all I’m saying. But the point? Is my message to founders is the power of relationships now granted this relationship took years? But with that was the development of trust. Risk the risks paid off and he let me be very clear. He wants a return and as most family offices they want to return. But it doesn’t change the fact that so much. Of why we’re. Having this conversation is based on a relationship. It’s not based on venture capital. It’s not based on the fact that we had a Unicorn. Exit. So that’s my thing to to the founders is really, really, really hone the like, hold the relationships that where you can see you align with somebody, hone that relationship. You never know what it’s going to lead to. And so that’s my biggest take away. 

Hessie Jones 

To them, I’m going to I’m going to segue that into the next question because. You’ve. You’ve often spoke about, you know, the untapped markets and the fact that there’s a lot of capital that you know, it’s just sitting on the table because companies, investment companies don’t realize that there are other alternatives to what they currently invest in. Tell me about. Tell me about that and how that has fed into your your investment thesis. 

Giselle Melo 

Sure. So. At matter, whenever somebody pitches us, we’re asking ourselves because there’s a committee of us. Now we’re asking ourselves what untapped and addressable opportunity has this founder identified? And it’s we’ve, you know, after hearing a lot of pitches, we’ve realized it’s it’s likely one. Of three things. That defines that untapped and the addressable opportunity. And I know you’re big on privacy, so I’ll give you the example. The first one is a solution with untapped value. What do I mean by that? I mean something like a a proton, right? Proton as you know, as we love identified. And untapped. And addressable opportunity merely from addressing and applying privacy to their products, right? So that’s what I mean by a solution with untapped value. There are so many e-mail providers and and and. Like communication tool providers out there, but they they they recognize there’s an entire population in the world that cares about privacy. So they took what is. A product that is nothing new to anybody. They identified an untapped value in that product which is applying privacy and. They’re one of the most prolific companies in the world, so that’s one which is a solution with untapped value. Second is a solution based in North America, meaning the founders are somewhere in North America, Canada, US, Mexico, et cetera. They’ve built it here, but it’s well positioned for expansion into untapped geographies. I mean, there’s so many examples of that, but essentially what we’re saying is, hey, you’ve built this thing. Awesome. The likelihood of you having competitors very likely, what makes your thing so special. So we’re listening for that founder who’s either generated some revenues here and generated revenue or or identified that there’s a market outside of North America. Who wants that thing. So that is number 2, which is a solution based in North America, well positioned for expansion. Into untapped geographic markets. So that’s untapped geographies. And then the third. Is what people often think of. When we talk about matter of ventures and I think it’s a, it’s unfortunately it’s a narrow approach because in no, in no case was proton being a diverse led company. They weren’t building for other diverse consumers, right? They were they they were building because they recognized and on to have value in the product. Then they built the product that was better for a certain geographic certain type. Of user. So in this third case, which is what people think, we only focus on, but it’s not, we do 123 is a solution that addresses untapped sectors and these sectors could be products and solutions that address women’s markets, cultural markets, veterans markets, disabled bodied communities. Right. So it’s, which is much more than half the globe now, by the way, it’s not even a minority anymore. It’s basically a solution that addresses. The majority right. And it’s weird to say that because of that, that addressable market or that untapped market has for so long been considered minority, but they’re actually the majority, but they are still highly untapped. We hear again and again how many sectors that focus on these communities haven’t addressed their needs. So that’s the third one for us and as an actual example, our first investment identified two of three of those untapped markets, so. Number two and three, which is. There are cyber solution with untapped value, right? So like the proton, I’m not saying privacy was their thing. I can’t tell you what their magic sauce was, cause they haven’t disclosed that, but we saw that in their product, which was an untapped they. They they figured out. Untapped value in their product and then two, they’ve positioned themselves for major expansion into untapped geographic markets. It’s already happening and I think there’s going to be a continued strong likelihood that their revenues and their growth come from international markets and that their revenue and growth will actually outpace what they’ve achieved so far in North America. So that’s how we define untapped, OK. 

Hessie jones 

So let’s talk about the fund itself, because I mean there there is the underlying motivation for you to even start this and you say matter does venture or VC differently and. How is? How is it doing it differently? Understanding exactly what’s out there and what’s wrong with BC right now? 

Giselle Melo 

It’s it’s. I don’t think my answer is going to be really any different than most of the things we’ve heard in the market. But I will say this ten years ago. UM. And this is more from an inspirational standpoint 10 years ago when I experienced immense challenges raising early stage funding. I knew that eventually I would find success in some way, shape or form. And build an investment firm. I I knew that. So for me it was not a matter of if it was a matter of when and more importantly, how would the investment firm need to be structured to solve for the problem of selecting. And supporting the growth success and maximum exit value of transformative organizations and companies, led by incredible diverse teams. That’s what it became to me. Now to give you an example of. Not only you know that’s what I experienced 10 years ago, but it’s interesting to see how that has and continues to exist in the VC space. And I’ll use deal flow as an example, so. To me it’s wild and I think wild is a nice word, but I’ll use that word. To me. It’s wild that we have. We’ve actually received a meaningful amount of deal for from other traditional, bigger VC’s. That’s good news. That’s a wonderful thing. I love the ecosystem approach that exists in VC. Keeping in mind we invest in deep tech software. This essentially means that. The IP or specific technology or science is key to the success of that company, so much so that if you were to remove that IP or technology or science that the founder has developed. Or the end of the market untapped opportunity, they’ve, they’ve, they’ve developed or discovered. The company itself would cease to have asset value. That’s the difference between deep tech software or deep tech. Anything and tech right? Is that technical science IP is so essential to the company doesn’t mean the founder in the market and all the other things are not essential. But if you remove that essential piece. That company would cease to have asset value. That’s how important. The the, the, the, the. IP is to to it, so one would think. That if an inclusive or diverse team pitched nearly any VC that’s investing in deep tech, that investor. Understanding deep tap could assess the viability and validity and value of that startup right just from a subject matter expertise standpoint. And because again, the company needs to have that thing to make it the thing right, it needs to have sign tech, right? It’s. But instead some big V season investors have actually sent us deep tech companies, where the founder or founders are black or Latin, or women or veterans, less so on the veteran’s side, I notice which makes sense. People of color will call it or women. And you know, initially, like, amazing. Thanks for sending me the deal. I’m like, super excited, especially when it comes from a bigger view here just. Like. Oh my God. Like people are getting to know matter ventures. They’re sending us deals. We’re building these relationships, but exactly 12 out of the 2027 cases that we’ve. Yeah, which to me is 12 too many when I’ve asked that DC A. You know, what are your thoughts about this deal? Like, what do you like about this deal? What are the concerns? You have this deal to hear a reply that they haven’t looked at. The deal is bonkers to me. That’s the piece that’s wild to me. So think about that for a moment. We’re not investing like, like I said, we have three ways that we identify untapped markets. Only the 3rd way. Is tied to, you know, cultural or women or, you know, visible minorities, disabled bodied folks. So we’re, you know, we’re not investing in women’s CPG products as an example. So this is not a case where a group of male investors don’t understand a niche market. This is for there’s a group of investors. Who understand deep tech but haven’t looked at the deal because the founders and I have to draw that conclusion. Because they’re sending it to us, which we’re we’re one of the only right investment firms who invest at that intersection. But you haven’t even looked at the deal. So, so. When we say we invest differently, there’s so many reasons why I like the network. We have almost 500 now advisors who specialized from PHD’s to deep tech experts to all kinds of folks that we reach out to to de risk our deals to do all the things that we need to do to de risk and provide the greatest returns to investors, but. One thing is we would never overlook a founder or forward a deal to another investor without reviewing it first. Who does that? So that’s when I, you know, still I see these and then people are like, well, that’s only 12. That’s twelve too many. 

However, however. Rather than saying, hey, this is a problem, I’m not saying it’s not. But the capitalist in me is like, keep keep them coming. Keep sending them can keep sending me all the women, people of color, black, Latino, indigenous founders building those companies. I it is my pleasure. To look. At what they’re building and look under the hood and understand what they’re building and may that be one of the May may, may it be one of the the companies that turns into a Unicorn. Yeah, that that want to return to our culture. So I’ll stop there. 

Hessie Jones 

Yeah, I think interesting it I I think that what like what you’re addressing is obviously something that even like let’s say 5-10 years ago, nobody really wanted to talk about and and whether or not the VC community wants to admit the fact that there are there exists some kind of unconscious bias or that they have. Establishment networks that they only look at deals from, from people within that network and that, you know, those are the ones that are trusted and that you know, anything else outside of that becomes, you know, you know, less likely to. The best, who knows but but. But I mean, this is the kind of thinking that actually stops emerging founders from from all those places that you talked about, like the indigenous, the women, you know, all all these, all these amazing founders. Not access to any of those resources just because of who they are and it stops them, no matter whether or not they will be like the future. Steve Jobs, yeah. 

Giselle Melo 

I mean, I’m. I’m I, I acknowledge that I, you know, people talk about that at at length. But I do want to emphasize 11 point, which is, you know, kind of and this is not watering down anything that you said or that I think all of us are fully aware of at least most of us are fully aware of. Yes, we have choices, right? Everybody has choices that will ultimately become the results of who they are. Unfortunately, yes, those those speed bumps and those layers exist at. The same time. And for as long as you and I have communicated, you know that I live and die by one thing, which is the Mama mentality. I don’t care what people put in terms of speed bumps and. Anything that’s going to it, to me, it’s just going to slow it down, reroute it, protect me. But I really hope that founders spend more of their time and energy focused on finding the solutions and finding the people like Jim and others who. Understand that there’s. Actually benefits to. Broadening and. Diversifying like you would any. Any investment in your portfolio, there’s a reason they they they they suggest portfolio diversification, it’s it’s not a it’s not just a cute word. There’s actually numbers and data which I told you I’m a numbers girl there’s value in in understanding from pure pure investment play there’s there’s value there but. People are going to be people. We cannot spend our time and energy focused on that. We can’t. We can’t. 

Hessie Jones 

Absolutely. And and there has been a lot it it’s been. In the news. So long the unfortunate part is we’re not moving the needle. OK, maybe optically. But when we talk about investment, we’re still OK 2023. 

Giselle Melo 

We are here. No, we are moving anyway. 

Hessie jones 

.48% of VC funding went to black founders 2%. Went to women in 2022. I saw those numbers for the last consecutively for the last 3-4 years. I’m going this is not significant. This is maybe it is it. Is it a percentage of the total of capital that’s been deployed in the market, maybe it’s the increase in capital had happened year over year. Fine, but. The the benefit is still not going to them. It’s going to the white male founder. So, you know, I’ve yet to see, like, significant movement in this industry. And I mean, there’s a reason why people continue to talk about it because it hasn’t happened yet. There hasn’t been significant enough movement to say that it’s working. So but you will persist. I know you will. I know you will. 

Giselle Melo 

It’s not even. I mean, it’s not even at this point. It’s not even persists, it’s, it’s thrive and there’s so many more of us that are thriving now and and we’re very clear and we recognize all of what you said. So I’m not diminishing that in any way shape or form. But stick around for the next 25 years. And you’re going to see some. I’m I’m a. I’m a long term kind of kind. Of kind of gal so. 

Hessie Jones 

Yes, I you’ll be on. I’ll. I’ll be watching Giselle. TV, believe me. 

Giselle Melo 

I don’t think about that. You know, you know, I’m not a big fan of interviews. I’m not sure about that, but you may, you see. A lot of our portfolio companies on on. On the in the lights and in the. 

Hessie Jones 

I can’t wait. OK, I I’m gonna I. Have two more. Questions because I think these are going to be significant because I I want to know what your OK we know your thesis. We know what you your company invests in but where do you see the market moving specifically when it comes to automation even if if machine learning? That’s actually considered past day these days. But where is? It moving in the next decade. Well. 

Giselle Melo 

There’s no denying that like data AI. I know Quantum is still in the. Corporate and research DoD levels, but it’ll find its way into consumer there is no denying that these technologies open up a world of possibilities for learning, for automation decision making. These are all technologies. That will come and go, meaning. They’re new now, but they will become commoditized over time. I see a future that is bright when we realize that technology itself only tells part of the story. Intuition. Critical thinking enable what I call non-linear problem solving. And it helps both companies and communities iterate on new opportunities or solutions. So I believe that adding critical thinking and creativity and intuition and you know some of those non tangibles to the mix will arguably unlock a different dimension of computing. Computing and intelligence and provide companies. Continued to provide companies with a competitive advantage, and I think humanity on a whole will be more aligned and sustainable in the types of solutions that we’re going to see. I also think our global economy will not experience, and I’ve said this before, 100 years of movement in the in the 21st century, this everything speeding up. It’ll be more like 20,000 years at today’s. Right. And some views, some I think I’ve heard this before, some view the innovation economy or this, you know emerging tech or edge tech economy is is very mature because everybody knows about AI now where it’s been around for 40 years. There’s this, there’s this view. That. The innovation economy is mature. It’s purely tech driven. And it’s resulting in a lot of consolidation with few companies remaining and few transformative new transformative, sometimes sustainable solutions entering the fold. I don’t, I don’t agree with that view. I think we’re meters down. A road many miles long and every time there’s significant innovations that reach the consumer level like AI has. It’s because there’s been demographic, demographic shifts, energy shifts, geopolitical shifts, climate, cultural shifts. I think it’s these these factors that drive technology and innovation and shape the world and not the other way around. So I think there’s so much focus on. The tech, when we should actually be. Taking the peak at the things that are driving and and shaping and causing the adoption of some of these technologies and I believe much of the world now realizes that our ancestors already did the hard work and handed down the wisdom necessary for us to innovate inclusively and and make a lot of money and thrive. So I don’t think we need to reach, it’s not about recreating the wheel anymore. We’re just more tech, more tech, more tech. I’m a techie, I love. The thing I. Love it. I love numbers. I love all of that, but we absolutely need to unify, and we have the opportunity, I think, to leverage technology. Regardless of whether it’s edge computing, computer vision will robotics all those things and build systems and infrastructure. That allow us to scale. Both our wealth and our freedom, and I like the way Jack Dorsey, which is again you had asked me before why I’m a fan, is how he largely describes technology. Is is I I view it similarly as is we get to design what we want to see in the world rather than doing what other people think we should be should be doing. That’s my view of technology. 

Speaker 

Hessie jones

So last question, I think you’ve already alluded to the to how important personal relationships are in in helping drive many things in your life in, in your, in your business, what personal values or principles have helped you guide? Yourself, like in, in, in what decisions you end up making and what Rd. you end up taking forward.

Giselle Melo 

I mean, that’s one sentence is I try my best not to manufacture alignment. That’s it. 

Hessie Jones 

That’s all. That’s awesome. OK. Can we break that down a little bit? OK. You know, I I want you to explain that to me as I try to digest this meaning. 

Giselle Melo 

I believe in pursuing whatever you want in life fully. Where you have to chase it attracted. But I think there comes a time. When? And it’s in any relationship business. Romantic family. Well, you know, you just **** heads. Whether you know and and people say in companies, but companies are made out of people, solutions are built by people. Technology is built by people. So for me, manufacturing alignment means when I meet somebody in any capacity, if we’re butting heads and we just don’t see eye to eye, I’m not going to go out of my way. To and and I. I hope they don’t either to try and make our conversation or our views fit right. We all have different ways. With the world. And I just. I believe there’s we actually, I believe we actually live in. Multiple worlds where. Your view is your view, your experience, your journey. Thrive in that, and if you if somebody else comes along and doesn’t doesn’t align with that view, OK. Keep it moving. Keep it moving because there’s a whole group of people out there, whether it’s two 2 billion that that align with that view, and so I would rather spend my my effort my capital and seek return on investments in areas where there’s an alignment and that’s you know that’s why you know many cases there’s certain family offices I like working. Yes. There is a view that family offices are actually a better solution for large pools of capital. Transformative solutions. Yeah, alignment. It’s just about and trying trying to force that over the long run. It never really work really works out. 

Hessie Jones 

Yeah, from an investment perspective, I think maybe the equivalent is get to a quick no. Because I find, I find that if you don’t like, let’s just not beat around the Bush. If it if it’s not your gut is saying something, then then actually just spell it out. And so I can move on, right? 

Giselle Melo 

Well, it’s, you know what? It’s funny you say gut because you know. 

Even data some people will pull up all the data in the world and the data doesn’t actually. Shift the other party’s perspective. They’re like, oh, but it’s in the data. It doesn’t matter. It’s in the data. There’s entire world has made-up their mind about a certain solution. And moving forward, you can put all the data you want in their in their face. It’s not going to change their perspective because they view things differently. So data, not data. 

Hessie Jones 

Absolutely. 

Giselle Melo 

Math, not math. I I love forget math. I love data, I love tech, but it’s that’s not what’s going to evolve somebody’s perspective when you realize somebody just doesn’t see eye to eye, you know what? Send them the blessings and thank thank the universe for that interaction. And and keep going. 

Hessie Jones

That was your last word, and I I appreciate that last sentiment, because I think it’s important. I think it’s important and we’re not going to please everybody. We just have to be true to ourselves at the end of. The. Day so we can get to sleep at night really nicely.

Giselle Melo 

I’m not going. Not to harp on Steve Jobs, but he did have a saying. He’s just like. If you want. To make everybody happy, sell ice cream. Don’t be a. Leader and I liked that a. Lot I was like, OK, OK, Mr. Jobs, you. Got you. Got my mind you. 

Sell ice cream, man. You make all you wanna. You wanna put a a smile at on the you know, your entire neighborhood and all your investors. Just give them some ice cream. But leadership requires sometimes some hard decisions and it’s OK to disagree. 

Hessie Jones 

Sell ice cream. 

There we go. 

There you go. Yeah, well, thank you. I I appreciate you joining me today. Giselle, you have a lot. Well, I mean it’s it’s amazing to me like the perspectives and insights that you have that help drive a lot of what’s going to go into matter ventures. In in the. Especially in the sector that that actually does require some change. So I wish you all the best and. You’re going to do. 

Giselle Melo 

One thing we’ll have we’ll have a call about the tactical components of matter ventures, how we make our investment decisions, our portfolio. 

Hessie jones 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. 

That other stuff. This investment as usual investment as you. 

There you go. Well, thank you again and for our audience. Thank you for joining us today. Tech Uncensored is powered and produced by altitude accelerator. We’re hosted on Spotify and you could find us wherever you get your podcast. Until next time my name is Hessie Jones. Have fun and stay safe.