Leadership for Startup Founders Post-Pandemic – Altitude Accelerator

Hessie Jones

So we’re talking now about leadership or early stage. We actually need to guide and inspire at the early stages of business and something I’ve read is that while team and idea are important, poor leadership is a common reason why many startups fail. So from your perspective, what are the qualities that a leader must have?

Carlos Granda

Yeah, it’s. I think it’s difficult to just give one answer to the question because I think every startup may be at different stages of their own journey. So and if you’re first getting started and and you are a founder, that literally is working out of their garage by themselves or with two other people, it’s different than when you get to. You know, having a team of 15. Or having a team of 20. And so, I think just as a leader. Just in general, and I think it transcends. Sometimes you know different industries. I think you just must be clear and crisp on sort of your vision, right. You have to be able to have a clear vision you have to communicate effectively what that vision is. You have to stay focused, but you also have to empower your team and create a culture that gives sort of the team the option gives them the ability, it gives them the free. You know to give ideas and to create innovation. What I’ve seen is sometimes the founders feel like it’s. This is my idea. This is my company and, in many cases, don’t take sort of the ideas and thoughts from the rest. Of the team. And don’t as a founder, you have to learn to. Begin to create a culture as your team gets bigger and as you begin to evolve is making sure you have a a culture that fosters. Fosters collaboration fosters innovation and that sometimes is the the toughest thing for the founders because as they evolve, they were the smartest person in the room and so now they have to start leading the team and inspiring the team, not just telling. Them what to do?

Hessie Jones

So does that kind of leads to the next question about effective leadership? So, so let’s define that and if is there an actual unique combination of skills and experience for founders to be effective leaders.

Carlos Granda

Yeah. You know, I think I think people. Just the founders, I think, need to learn to be adaptable and resilient. I think the founders at the very beginning when you’re getting started, you are going to face lots of challenges. They’re probably going to hear lots of times the word “no”. Or we cannot fund you. We cannot. We don’t know who you are. So they they’re gonna hit their door slam quite a bit in their face around what they’re trying to do. And so, I think the skills is they need to be resilient. But they also need to be adaptable. They need to be empathetic with their teams and kind of where they’re at. They need to surround themselves with people that maybe bring skills. There are gaps for them, I think, like anybody, we all have blind spots in our lives. And as a leader. That’s it’s actually a very important piece of it that you need to learn to understand. Where are you? And sort of surround yourself with people that can help you fulfill those weaknesses or those blind spots so you can actually lead the team going forward. I think that’s just the I think some of those things are just general leadership qualities. But I think for the founders just being resilient, being scrappy and never giving up on their dream is something that is a very critical piece.

Hessie Jones

So let, let’s turn to the pandemic and how it’s, I guess, in many ways upended the way business has evolved in the last couple of years. You talked about the idea of being resilient and it from this perspective, like navigating uncertainty, especially of the kind of magnitude that we’ve seen is important. And all of us have been tested all at once. So what kind of expectation or pressure does this put now on the founder?

Carlos Granda

Well, the  pandemic as I mentioned there was never really a playbook. We all have to figure it out. And as a leader the experiences that we faced and the pandemic itself, I think it transcended and I think it it didn’t matter. The title you have. The title you had how much money you make? It doesn’t matter where you live. It didn’t matter. The pandemic impacted humanity and I think that it put us all at a level that we’ve never been before, where there was always sort. Of this almost a. Hierarchical way of looking at the world, but when you were going through the pandemic. Everybody was equal because whether you were a CEO of a company or you were, you know, the receptionist, you know, sitting in the front desk is you experience. That you experience, you know well-being you would experience different things that impact you. So we kind of put everybody at the same level. So now that we’re in the post pandemic era that hopefully we’ll never have to experience again as we’re in this post pandemic area, then there’s also no play. A lot of leaders are struggling with trying to figure out how. To make that connection. And so I think at the end of the. Day it’s as a as. A as a founder or as a leader, you gotta focus on your employees well-being. You have to be and lead with empathy. I think it’s. It’s about being authentic. I feel that when I’ve been successful with creating a culture where the team is high performing, they’re collaborating. They do feel like a team and like a family is when you leave. My example. You know, and and I do compare leadership sometimes to being a parent for those who have kids is that you can’t just tell your kids what to do. You got to show them. What to do? And when I look at the weather is the good things my, my two sons do or the two things that drives me crazy are things. It’s because they’re marrying and mimicking a lot of the things that we do that I do. And so as a leader is the same thing, you can’t tell the team just to be nice. You can’t just tell the team. Collaborate with others. You can tell the team you know don’t work on the weekends when you yourself. Are responding to emails and sending notes and sending guidance to your team. On the weekends. So it’s it’s probably the most critical piece of it is, is to lead with empathy, but also to build a strong culture that you gotta lead by example.

Hessie Jones

OK, so in this post pandemic era and these are some examples. That that I’m starting to see in my world and in like my my kids world where they are now expected. To go back. To work during the pandemic, there are there are people who. Who actually left? The city and they decided I’m going to move. I’m going to move further away because during the pandemic we don’t know where we’re going to to go back and I can’t afford to live in the. City. So after the pandemic, companies had said, you know what, we’re going to be hybrid for the most part. And those who have moved away, you know you can work remotely as long as you want. Now we’re starting to see a shift, and there are companies, as you know, like Google, Microsoft. Some of them are actually expecting people to come back to work. And there has been studies that that have shown that even during the pandemic, productivity hasn’t actually slowed down, that that issue of trust where you know that the work is being done and that you don’t have to actually walk around to make sure that people are actually doing their work. That that’s not needed so. Well, how? How does a leader manage that it about the expectations of, you know, what happens now? Do I need you to be at work at work? What are the trust infractions that may occur because of the decisions that they make?

Carlos Granda

Ohh,  that’s a definitely a loaded question too, because I think I think some industries adapted much quicker  pandamic. Even when we’re going through the pandemic like I myself, you know? And I don’t know if I was one of few, but I myself already did a lot of the hyper. So either I was traveling around the world visiting customers, clients, my own team and then usually one day out of the week. Two days out of the week, if I was home, I may actually just work from home and so I had a whole setup for myself to have. So this virtual world where I can work from home, work at the airport, travel and things like that. So the only thing that force was that now was spending more time doing something that I already do at least one day, two days a week. It became the five days a week where. I was so. For me personally, and I know a lot. Of people went through that too. They did. The transition wasn’t as difficult, but now that we’re going back, I am seeing. Different spectrums of people saying, you know what, just let’s work. Hybrid people can work in a very hybrid, flexible environment and world, and then they’ll switch their by in six months later and like, no, no, we need everybody at least three days. A week because. We’re paying a lot of real estate for buildings. And so there isn’t. Like the perfect answer, because you can actually break it down. Especially if you’re. A A large company or a small company. Depending on the role, depending on the function you’re talking about, there is a lot of productivity that you can have by working from home. But you also can drive a lot of innovation by having people. In the room, it’s very old school that. That having people in a room creates synergies, creates alignment, creates and inspires. Innovation. So there is. Definitely. It’s hard to just give like one answer that is across the board for everybody, because it really depends. You know people can be. And then you can add another dimension to. That is, you could start thinking about generations, so you’ll have executives out there, you know, probably later age in life where they’re maybe they’re empty nesters. So for them it’s like, look, you know, we need to lead the organization. We ourselves need to be in the office because we need to drive a culture where everybody’s in the office. Then you have the younger people you know, maybe even my own son’s age, you know, kind of in the early 20s to, let’s say, you know, 30s. They’re like, hey, we’ve been in the pandemic. We were stuck for three for three years almost. We want to get back. So they’re excited. They actually won that social connection. That, even though they’re social media, but they still want that connection with people, and at least they want to be able. To come in into an office. But then you have the middle management, sort of the middle layer of those 3 generations, kind of 30 up. And higher than might have younger kids. And so now you’re dealing with babysitting. You need. You’re dealing with carpooling now. You have doctor’s appointments and you have all these other things that have created this well. Wait a second. We kind of like this. I don’t need to be in the office all the time. I like to work from home. Because I don’t. Have a sitter or you know my wife and myself are trying to balance, you know, our own schedules. And so that in itself creates an interesting dynamic where you have leaders that young people want to be in the office, but the team is actually leading the young people or listening to the leadership team to around how to drive, let’s say, you know, financial performance does not want to be in the office. And so that there isn’t really the the right answer. So we are seeing quite a bit. That people trying to figure it out, trying to, you know, give their employees flexibility. But  to your point around what are the measurements that you can create trust. I’m a big believer in culture. I think you got it. Earn the trust of the teams. The teams need to create and. Have a culture where they trust each other. I’ve always said if you could do your work in an hour, then do it in an hour. If it takes you. 10 hours. That’s fine, and don’t as a leader. The things that we need to worry about is really the outcome and the output that we’re getting. We don’t need to worry so much about they need to be in the office sitting right next to me doing the work, because then you’ve not created really the culture. That you are earning trust from each other. So I think culture becomes a very critical piece that allows teams to work remotely, collaborate remotely, hold each other accountable, cause that’s a big thing. You know, you it’s easy, you have four or five people working remotely. It’s becomes very easy within the team to see. Who is not? Pulling their weight, who is not creating or delivering on the things that they were supposed to. So it creates. If you have the right culture, you create that sort of peer-to-peer accountability that becomes very important when it comes to leading the team .

Hessie Jones

You mentioned a couple of things there and I think the culture is very important and I don’t know that there are those that are old school as you talked about the general generational differences and can you can you inspire and can you feel like you’re part of the team? If you are in the office, if you are in one place. But you as a leader, still have to inspire to to grow a company and in a time when there are disparate views about, you know, where, where do I have to hang my hat at the end of the day where where do I live? In the office or at home? And whether or not management agrees with you, you still have to continue on the current trajectory of the company while you’re building this newfound empathy for the team. How do you balance that and how do you try to manage this evolving culture?

Carlos Granda

Yeah, it’s a. It’s an interesting question. I wish I had the answer  — like the perfect answer for everybody. I think the one thing that that people always talk about especially from an employee perspective, I think people always talk about having work life balance. And to be honest, I’m not a big believer. There’s such a thing of a work life balance because a balance means that I’m doing 70% of work, 30% of my personal life or 50% of work, 50% like, that’s like what a true balance is. I actually think that is we all need to understand and. Acknowledge that there’s no such thing as work life balance. There’s work, life, harmony. And I think that’s a very different way of looking at the world. It’s OK if I’m on vacation and I need to take a call from a customer. My family understands it. My customer understands it. But I also understand it because I can’t just go on on my vacation knowing that my customer has a potential issue. And as long. As I’m not impacting the time with my family. It’s OK to make a call. And so obviously you have to balance it. And or or. You have to have the harmony of of the two things kind of living together. But we live in this world where everything is accessible in real time. Right. It’s only your phone. It’s on your tablet, on your lap. You can book, you know, an airline ticket or booking a dinner reservation, but at the same time you’re getting an e-mail from a customer. That it may be struck or one of your employees needs to take some time off because from a well-being perspective there’s there’s things that they just need to resolve. On their own. So. You can’t just say, well, I’m on vacation. I’m not dealing with that. So as a leader, you need to truly understand that, but you need to make sure that there is that harmony, right. You have to find out who you are and what your priorities are. Right. No one’s gonna interrupt my family dinner. No one’s going to interrupt me celebrating my son’s birthday at a golf course like those things are important, but it doesn’t mean that after my golf, I can go and respond to a need of a customer. And I think that’s where if you create such a black and white view of the world where it’s like its work life out, it’s a balance of no, it’s harmony. You have to understand it. You will have to acknowledge that those two things are going to overlap. It’s going to happen. But then you. Need to self. Discipline around how do you actually create that harmony? Make sure that doesn’t interrupt the things that are more important to you, which is your family.

Hessie Jones

It’s funny how I look at the world today and I look at the world probably 20 years ago, 25 years ago, when I started working. And you’ve never said no, you never said no to a request, you stayed until the work got done. There was just that expectation and the culture. I don’t even know that empathy existed back then. I don’t even think that was a word in the business environment and so now I think we’re starting to see a shift where companies see a real risk of losing good employees or even harming their culture if they don’t make significant. Changes. How do you see the future of work right now, especially with these types of evolving, let’s say employee expectations and being able to now prioritize their well-being as opposed to their just work in general, how does that? How does that change overall like the landscape and market for for employers especially as we start changing our technology, right? Yeah.

Carlos Granda

Yeah, I think it’s. I think like I said earlier, I think people just need to and leaders. We need to be empathetic. I think in this new world, right, we do, we have to and because it’s not just our team, but it’s our clients, our partners. I’m I’m a big in person. Sort of leader. Like if I can fly to a city to meet my team and take them to dinner, listen to them, have a, you know, we used to call them coffee corners where they. Could they they? Would have ask Carlos anything. If I could do that, I would. I would go all over the world to do that because that personal connection is hard to replace. I mean, this gets you 80% there, 70% there, there’s that 30% of the shaking of the hands of your team and being there present and acknowledging them being there, it’s you can’t replace it. But I think as you said, look, technology gives us that flexibility to be anytime, anywhere. And so just find the time to ensure that you’re making connections with, but doesn’t change the fact that you have to be authentic. You know. The pandemic taught us. We used to. I used to. We used to have this. Conversation with the teams as we were going through the pandemic and I said. Gosh, the pandemic has created such a personal connection. Because you know, if I lost somebody in my family. It doesn’t matter. The title you. Had or how many people were under under you? It’s like you lost a family member. Was somebody on the other side of the screen lost a family member as well? And so I think that connection is what made the pandemic as a leader to just be more human. Right. You know, just to be human, there’s always this thought that leaders are these superheroes, these leaders, you know, do no long. They dress correctly all the time and and I think the pandemic brought us a level of. Humanity as leaders. And so I think as and sort of in this new world is I think. We just need to be empathetic. I think we need to be we need to not just somebody told me this once and I love it and I, you know, being a good listener, it’s not just waiting your time to speak. Listening is actually being a good list. It’s actually understanding what’s what’s coming out of the other side of it and. And kind. Of take and and acknowledging and. How does that hit? Us because there’s always this exercise is, you know, people tell you what their name is. And then two or three minutes later, like, what was their name? Again? The reason why it’s because you’re so. Excited to tell me your name? You’re not even listening to what their name is, and I think that’s the leader we. Got to learn how to listen. We got to have our pulse around how our people, our teams, our clients, our partners are dealing with things. You know, sometimes it’s not just, you know, they could be having a bad day. You know, with that bad day or they didn’t deliver on something well before you jump on people and get upset at them. Just take the time to understand. Is everything OK? Because sometimes it’s. And we right away jump away right away. Slow Carlos and give us this. He’s screwing things up. It could have been that I just found out that. My dog passed away. Mm-hmm. So there’s just little things where we have to just have a better sense of acknowledgement and empathy for what’s going on. In people’s lives.

Hessie Jones

I had, I think in the last couple of years, my sister is a psychotherapist, and so she always, she’s always talked to me about being present. And I never got it because I was always too busy and I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. And I would be in meetings, let’s say you and I were in a a zoom call. And, you know, I’d be typing while I’m talking and not being really present, not really empathizing. And I got caught many. Times by, you know, not not realizing that I had to do something or I didn’t respond or I had to. I had to ask them to repeat whatever they said. And you know it it really affects the way your relationship develops going forward because you don’t realize that. Every time you do that, that somebody realizes that your their time isn’t important, that you have. Put you you’re there, but you’re not really there. And because we’re, we’re always so busy. We wanted to get through the meeting and just make sure that we got those five points down and then just leave. So I’ve made it a point I think. I think it was post pandemic and to actually just really be present in every meeting that I am so that I can actually get what I was supposed to get and more out of that meeting. So that that taught me. A lot. Yeah, and.

Carlos Granda

The little habits you created, whether you do them at home with your own kids, take them to work. I think those good habits like for example, for us it’s a simple one. When I’m sitting down and having dinner with my family, there are no phones allowed. Not just on the table, but not even. In our pockets. Like it’s not allowed on the table like the table is a time to talk and enjoy a meal, and it could be as simple as a cheese sandwich. It doesn’t matter. It’s a time for us to be together and to talk and. And so we’ve created that as a culture, as a habit. And it’s interesting because now even when we go to restaurants, my sons. See other families on their phones like a husband and a wife or a boyfriend or girlfriend talking to each other and and have the kids with an iPad right in front of them and they get frustrated. They’re like, I would never let my kids do. That and so it’s. Become such a habit that they are now fully aware of, you know, when they go. Out with their. Friends, they started doing things like, hey, let’s just leave our phones at home or they just leave them in the car. Only one breaks the phone for an emergency. Because I I keep telling me you want to. Be present. Why? Are you taking a picture of of of your food and sending it to your cousin in Pittsburgh when you’re sitting in Orange County? And here are. Your five closest best friends. Why would you do that? And so we do. The same thing at work because have that respect. You know, we do have, you know, some specific rules when someone’s presenting. It’s like laptop sound, take notes, old school and a piece of paper if you need to. None of this. Laptops are none of this with your phones. Like pay attention. People are there to listen. They prepare content. Let’s give them their respect. And. And again, if I don’t do that. I can’t just tell people if I myself don’t do that and I’m disrespecting my own speakers up there and guess what, it’s giving everybody else the freedom and the sort of approval that it’s OK not to pay attention. And so I think it goes back to the having some good habits, creating some good ways to treat everybody. Out of respect, while at the same time if you model that behavior, then people will.

Hessie Jones

Thank you. So let’s talk about a leader today. He’s he has to not only lead with empathy, but he has to continue to look at the objectives that he has long term short term while navigating. Now this new uncertainty that that seems to be looming. In the background and he has to be ready for that. So. It does this idea of crisis preparedness now gain a lot more prominence within an organization so that they can be ready when the sky falls.

Carlos Granda

I was reading this book that talks a bit about sort of, you know, how do you lean in? And one of the things that really kind of resonated with me and it’s not just for leaders, but just as humanity in general, like how to be happy and how do you lead a team is that, you know, there’s going to be a lot of emotions. And feelings that you can control. Just you’re going to have a day where you’re having a bad day spilled. Coffee in yourself? Brand new suit or brand-new dress. Whatever you’re having a bad day, or you heard some horrible news from your family. So those are the feelings you’re or or you’re seeing the performance of your company or your own stock that is not leading or or you didn’t get the funding you want. So you’re always going to have these emotions and feelings. Which can’t control. That’s what makes us human. But how do you respond? It’s the critical piece of it, and so I always tell people like don’t react, respond. Because the easiest reaction if somebody cuts you off in the street, there’s going to be some four-letter words coming out of your mouth and potentially some not so nice finger pointing at people. What is that going to do? Just makes you gives you the 1st 10 seconds of pleasure because you were able to vent. Out, but then later on you’re going to you realize that you know what it was? An older lady, an older gentleman. They didn’t pay attention and unfortunately cut you off. They weren’t being mean. They didn’t wake up that day thinking that they’re gonna cut someone off. Just happened so that you feel bad. And so just. It’s always good to acknowledge not saying to ignore them. You have to acknowledge them. You’re upset, you’re angry, you’re hungry, you’re upset. You’re. Happy, whatever it is. Acknowledge it, but then learning how to respond and so enjoying this time is when especially the founders need to. Sometimes you know they’re going to get, like I said, rejected by investors. They’going tonna get potentially rejected by the business. Someone’s going to come in and say they have a better idea. You’re always going to get challenged. But I think that’s where the founders need to have the Brazilians to respond. And they still need to lead the team. It’s OK to acknowledge that you got rejected. OK. How does that make you feel? Great. OK, now let’s go react. How are we going to respond? We’re going to just quit, throw the towel, or we’re going to kind of change our plants. Adapt. Be scrappy. Get feedback. Why did you reject me? What could I do better? And so just having? That level of of. Self-awareness. It’s very, very important, not just for the success of your business, but also to the success of. The team is looking at. Leaders, they look at leaders. It’s like being the captain of a ship. When there’s something going on or the weather’s not going well, they’re always looking at the captain. And the captain is the one that has to make sure that everybody tells something else. It’s going to be OK. Yeah, huge storm outside. But let’s go figure out how do we live rather than sit there and cry or be upset about. And I think that’s where we’re in this world where I think leaders need to be scrappy, they need to be resilient, they need to communicate and need to inspire.

Hessie Jones

That’s great. Thank you. I I’m inspired by that actually, I think the whole thing about not reacting but responding, responding in a way actually means that you’re taking the time to not react, but be able to think about logically what to do. And understanding that the people who are under you are going to be looking at you for your leadership.

Carlos Granda

Yeah, one more thing on that one. Like how many times have you received an e-mail from someone  that upset you or? Somebody send you an e-mail and you realize, they blind copy your boss… or your boss’s boss.

How many times will you come back? And so what’s the first thing you? What do you want to respond and throw darts right back. At them. And so, the answer is don’t do it. That’s not the answer either. I’d say write it down. Write that e-mail, pretend like let all your feelings and emotions let them out. Go for it. Just don’t send it sleep on. Wake up the next morning. Read the e-mail again. And realize what you’re saying and what? You wrote back. Was it productive? Does it make you feel better or was it the right thing to do? Or was there anything that you need to clarify? And I would say 99% of the time you don’t send. Because you’ll realize your emotion, and that’s what happens is you. The first one would have been a reaction. Versus the second one is a response where you can go back and say, hey, I saw that e-mail. I didn’t appreciate that because was there something I missed? You know, do you want to have a direct conversation with me? And that’s just. A better way, more respectful way to deal with sometimes conflict. Rather than reacting.

Hessie Jones

Oh my goodness. I I think we need to have another episode on conflict. OK, so one last question. So you advise a lot of large companies that you mentor founders as well. What are some of the key pieces of advice that you give of leadership that transcends like all these organizations?

Carlos Granda

Yeah, I think there’s three things that I. I at least I try to. Live by is to always. Have a clear vision. And communicate it effectively to your team so many times the team doesn’t even doesn’t understand what is our mission. They don’t feel connected to the vision. The mission that we’re trying to accomplish. And so just how they, whatever the vision is, be clear and communicate that to your team regularly. I think sometimes leaders underestimate how smart, how talented, how. Scrappy and how dedicated the team is and they don’t like to share. Sometimes our challenges and I think it’s actually important and it helps them understand when you as a leader make a decision. So that’s my very first. I think the second one is you have to create a culture of authenticity. You as a leader need to be authentic and you need to lead by example. That alone creates a culture where everybody can be themselves. Everybody feels and wants to contribute because they know that their ideas. You know their suggestions are being led. It’s OK to say I’m not taking every single idea from everybody. I think we need to create a culture that allows people to be open and free to share ideas, share thoughts around them. And I think lastly for me, I know sometimes is touchy feely, but I do believe that if you have a strong culture of a team. I think empowers everybody to be successful. I think if you create a, a, a culture where you can be humble. Ohh you can be authentic. Would you like to collaborate that you are not there to kill or be killed is you’re actually trying to pull each other up. You’re trying to be respectful to everybody’s ideas. I think creating a culture that drives that is probably the biggest. I think key to any leader, no matter the size of the company, is to be successful. If you as a leader create a culture where it’s a kill or be kill or I am gonna throw the chicken leg in the middle of the table to see who grabs it. Sort of style of leadership. That in itself would transcend into the entire culture where there’s going to be backstabbing, there’s going to be, you know, lying and. Going behind peoples? Back and it’s just we’re just not a not. A great culture. And so I would say those are the three things have clear vision and communicate. Be authentic and lead by example. And then have a good culture. And create whatever those four or five values that you have. Our culture is not. Let’s go and hit our performance and create more profitability. That’s not a cult. Culture is how does the team navigate going? Forward what are? The core values. What’s your mission? What’s your purpose? And by the way, if you have a great culture, all the financial performers will come. I can guarantee you that.

Hessie Jones

That’s amazing. OK, on that. That was an amazing closing note. And thank you so much, Carlos. That’s all we have time for today. Before we go, we’re can people find you.

Carlos Granda

Uh, you can find me on. LinkedIn. So that’s. The easiest way you can also find me on Twitter. I think it’s my handle is at Grandpa Carlos on Twitter or X whatever it’s called nowadays. Usually LinkedIn is where I see it and is usually well. I’ll write blogs and I’ll write a post. Recently or an article around artificial intelligence as it relates to customers? And then I was working in and I’m working on another one right now that I’ll be posting hopefully by the end of November, focus around leadership.

Hessie Jones

OK, perfect. Thank you so much and thank you our audience for joining us. If you have topics you’d like us to cover, please e-mail us at communications at altitudeaccelerator.ca. And you could also find us at tech uncensored wherever you get your podcast. In the meantime, everyone have fun and until next time and be safe.

Carlos Granda

Thank you